iSoaker.net :: Soaking the world!

I see that you have now added the 13 or older agreement to the homepage. A necessary precaution. However, was it there before HYDROSOAKER joined? If not, he couldn't know what the minimum age was. We had this hitch with AquaNinja a couple weeks back, the minimum age unclear on the registry page. It was established that nowhere on the register page did it state you had to be 13 or older.

So is AquaNinja able to stay, while HYDROSOAKER is closed?

steelboot. wrote:I see that you have now added the 13 or older agreement to the homepage. A necessary precaution. However, was it there before HYDROSOAKER joined? If not, he couldn't know what the minimum age was. We had this hitch with AquaNinja a couple weeks back, the minimum age unclear on the registry page. It was established that nowhere on the register page did it state you had to be 13 or older.

So is AquaNinja able to stay, while HYDROSOAKER is closed?

It was an oversight on my part that the 13-or-older minimum age was not stated clearly during the registration process (it once was, but was lost during the forum upgrade).

Sadly, now that it has been brought to my attention that AquaNinja does not meet the minimum age requirements, that account will also be closed.

Well, he didn't know when he joined, so is that fair?

Originally, iSoaker.net had a notice that members needed to be 13 years-of-age or older when they registered. Unfortunately, that rule's text was lost during the forum upgrade and, consequently, some had joined not knowing this limit. As it has been found out that some members are currently indeed underage for these forums, they have now had their accounts deactivated. I have also added in the missing age requirement rule into the Registration page.

While age isn't everything when it comes to maturity, it still remains a good first-pass filter. Unfortunately, some younger members who are mature for their age may end up cut, but hopefully they will understand and consider rejoining the forums in the future when they are 13 years old or older.

To understand why the age of 13, please see the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. It's not just some arbitrary choice; it's the law in the US.

Soak on!

steelboot. wrote:Well, he didn't know when he joined, so is that fair?

Closing AquaNinja's account is fair, IMO, since he ended up posting his specific age, being under 13, on these forums; not a wise thing to do.

iSoaker, I know that it is law that at this point you must be 13 years or older, however I testify for the parties banned that a no ex post facto system should be in effect, which I am sure you know means that before a law is put into act, parties that violated the law before it was considered official are not able to be punished because at the time of violation, the law was not officially added to the sites rule book. I know that with a little bit of time, HYDROSOAKER would have been a great contibuter, and AquaNinja was also. But if we ban these members only because they were below age, as I am sure plenty of others are, we discourage potential enthusiasts and water warfare fans from going online. I'd feel bad (as puberty is not fully done at that age of course) if I was 11 and got banned because I was to young, because in real life, in Ohio at least, 12 and younger children are not allowed outside past 10:30 at night, so where else can they seem included? The internet. When I joined Super Soaker Central a long time ago, I was like 10, but I didn't tell anyone, because I still wanted to get all the prestige of being on the forums back when Ben and you yourself were very active, as well as M4 making more videos and vermin wars. If we really want to keep water warfare running, although I understand how it could be for their own good, we should allow access to the forum, maybe with parental permission from a parents e-mail address. Again, it's just my idea, but maybe it'd work.

@CCCP: I understand your point and concerns, but that law being followed is not some arbitrary iSoaker.net law, rather that of COPPA which was in place before these members joined, thus mooting the point of whether or not there should be an ex post facto system or not.

These forums have always strived to adhere to the law as much as possible. Now that those members ages are known, for them to be legally here would require submissions of COPPA forms which is a lot of paperwork and filing than I cannot afford to deal with. I agree it'd be optimal to allow members of all ages join a set of water warfare forums; whoever wishes to either set up a set of forums and adhere to COPPA rules or set up forums in a country that does not have such laws in place are more than welcome to do so. Besides, these forums are about to be significantly changed and limited in the near future so I do not consider these choices to be so restricting, anyhow.

I wish there were a more polite way to say "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Telling members is just a courtesy. And 97.8% of underage applicants simply ignore the warning anyway. [citation needed]

[quote=isoaker]@CCCP: I understand your point and concerns, but that law being followed is not some arbitrary iSoaker.net law, rather that of COPPA which was in place before these members joined, thus mooting the point of whether or not there should be an ex post facto system or not.[/quote]
That's what I was going to say. Also, note that if AquaNinja had continued to have an account after the law was passed, then that's illegal. You can't charge someone for having had an account before, but you can charge him/her for having one now. If that makes sense.

I believe COPPA forms are usable at WWc and maybe at SSC, too. I don't believe anyone has actually submitted one, though.

10:30 would've been a little late for me, at the time. Probably a good reason for making sure the parent approves.

Uh-oh, now I sound like an adult too...

The COPPA crap's kind of ridiculous IMO. It's the same old people in suits blaming nothing but video games and what not for kids' problems today. If they play it smart, they can easily get around it anyways, but it seems like too many underage aren't well educated on the internet even nowadays.

10:30... That law better be only for those unattended by parents, which I'll assume that's the case.

Do the COPPA laws reach Canada? That's where the server used to be.

C-A_99 wrote:Do the COPPA laws reach Canada? That's where the server used to be.

Not sure if COPPA is technically required in Canada, but the servers for iSoaker.com/iSoaker.net have been in the US for a long time now. Actually, pretty much since iSoaker.com was started; only Aquatechnology was hosted on Canadian servers.

I believe COPPA forms are usable at WWc and maybe at SSC, too. I don't believe anyone has actually submitted one, though.

Now inactive member "Some Guy" sent a form in for the original SoakerMedia forums. I actually still have it in the SM file folder. That allowed him to remain at SM at age 12. It's not that much paperwork, nor takes longer than a couple minutes. The only annoying part is sending the form in and potentially keeping them organized on a big forum. I don't see why we couldn't do that here, rather than banning everyone under 13, which won't stop them from registering anyway.

Lewis wrote: I don't see why we couldn't do that here, rather than banning everyone under 13, which won't stop them from registering anyway.

To comply with COPPA, one needs to have a mailing address and/or fax address for which filled COPPA forms can be sent. No fax machine for me and I have no desire to have a mailing address available.

Besides, these forums are soon becoming a lot more limited in nature, so I don't feel so bad about limiting who can technically register.

That said, it'd be great if WWc were to allow those younger than 13 register legally using COPPA forms if that's a viable option.