iSoaker.net :: Soaking the world!

by **isoaker** on Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:59 pm

The Super Soaker gun type is to dominant and already past its prime. I don't even like saying "Soakerdom" anymore since its to one sided.

I was agreeing with (or at least letting slide various assumptions you made in) most of your post up until you made this rather disagreeable statement.

This is going to bring back the whole 'gun' versus 'soaker' terminology debate. While I've stepped back from my disliking of the use of 'gun' when talking about water guns/blasters/soakers, my initial reasoning and concern remains the same. However, I don't particularly feel like dredging up that aspect.

The desire to shoot another with a realistic looking gun, even if it were a water gun, just doesn't appeal to me nor does it reflect the water sport I wish to promote. Despite the use of militaristic terms, the goal of soaking, IMO, is to soak another. Water guns/blasters/soakers are the tools we use to accomplish this, but my desire to avoid realistic looking guns is simply to reduce the likelihood of someone mistaking a water weapon for a real weapon and defending/counter-attacking with a real firearm. Even giving such a device an 18+ rating doesn't make it necessarily safe from abuse. Soaking also should nothave pain involved in it, except perhaps pride hurting after you've been horribly soaked by another. :goofy:

I've done my best to encourage you while putting forth my concerns and retaining my own position on how I wish to promote water warfare. If you want to develop it, that's fine. However, I should also point out you're pitching an 18+ device to a community mostly made up of those younger than 18.

o:

by **ANNIHILATOR 2** on Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:12 am

isoaker_com wrote:
The Super Soaker gun type is to dominant and already past its prime. I don't even like saying "Soakerdom" anymore since its to one sided.

I was agreeing with (or at least letting slide various assumptions you made in) most of your post up until you made this rather disagreeable statement.

This is going to bring back the whole 'gun' versus 'soaker' terminology debate. While I've stepped back from my disliking of the use of 'gun' when talking about water guns/blasters/soakers, my initial reasoning and concern remains the same. However, I don't particularly feel like dredging up that aspect.

The desire to shoot another with a realistic looking gun, even if it were a water gun, just doesn't appeal to me nor does it reflect the water sport I wish to promote. Despite the use of militaristic terms, the goal of soaking, IMO, is to soak another. Water guns/blasters/soakers are the tools we use to accomplish this, but my desire to avoid realistic looking guns is simply to reduce the likelihood of someone mistaking a water weapon for a real weapon and defending/counter-attacking with a real firearm. Even giving such a device an 18+ rating doesn't make it necessarily safe from abuse. Soaking also should nothave pain involved in it, except perhaps pride hurting after you've been horribly soaked by another. :goofy:

I've done my best to encourage you while putting forth my concerns and retaining my own position on how I wish to promote water warfare. If you want to develop it, that's fine. However, I should also point out you're pitching an 18+ device to a community mostly made up of those younger than 18. o:

Then its good that only you and I are posting right now on this thread. :goofy:

True, its an extreme 18+ concept I am pitching in this below 18 populated site, but then again we had other 18+ or M rated areas in the Vidiogame section(GTA,Halo...). Which was partially the reason of me wondering if this more adult Watergun franchise should be in the Off Topic section.

I do really consider "Soakerdom" to be a somewhat bias term, yet covering everything in water warfare. And even though it covers and represents water warfare, or water gun activity, the mental image or thought association most would have with "Soakerdom", would be exactly that: a Soaker. There already has been AirPressure tech squirt devices in Europe 1985 mostly in gardening watering tools and toys(toys that looked like the gardening tools). So what a Soakers trademark is, is not its use of air pressure(it made it popular,but it didn't invent it. If people are interested, I can make a rendering of a pre-SS Airpressure watergun.), but its basic image and looks. Its a somewhat blaster looking, yet cheery and bright posetiv squirt toy which is build to soak. Its the liquid shooting Nerf version if you remove the target practise activity from nerf, if that helps.

If people hear "Soakerdom", they will not think of ENTERTECH or Pre-Super Soaker waterguns. They will think of Super Soaker and now Water Warriors aswell. The ideal is now, that whatever does not fit into the "Soaker" look or image is a crapy watergun. Anyone remember the "Shout'n Shoot" and its finger version. It might was flawed technical wise, but its concept was very intriguing. My point is, Super Soaker became the victor in the 1990s watergun market wars, and now part of its name is used to describe everything watergun related at a quick wip. If Larami would have stuck with "Power Drencher" (or was it Super Drencher) then the popular term would be "Drencherdom" now. Not something people have to agree with, but I will nevertheless throw the possibility out. The reasonable theory I am stating here is, that the Super Soaker Franchise has become so dominant in the water gun world, that it became natural for most to see the Super Soaker franchise or Super Soaker typ franchises as the only area relevant. And that is something, I do disagree with.

Sure, if companies will ever turn my "Hardcore Watergun Replicas" concept into an actual franchise, it probably will damage contemporary "Soakerdom". It won't eradicate it, but could destroy Soakerdom's dominance in something I like to call Recreational Water Guns (RWG). Guns seen as a loose term like "Glue Gun" or "Nail Gun". And that is something I would see as a posetiv thing. It would actualy promote diversity in the market and RWG in general. People will still have their "Soakerdom", but some of us won't have to rely on it to be eintertained by Recreational Water Guns.

Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1108721876

by **isoaker** on Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:06 am

If people hear "Soakerdom", they will not think of ENTERTECH or Pre-Super Soaker waterguns. They will think of Super Soaker and now Water Warriors aswell. The ideal is now, that whatever does not fit into the "Soaker" look or image is a crapy watergun.

People don't think of those since, water-wise, older water guns on average performed a lot poorer than low calibre SS and WW blasters. As well, Soakerdom was created with creation of the Internet which makes the 1980's look so far in the past (but still a part of my past :goofy: ). However, SuperSoaker-like franchises are NOT the only thing that's relevant. Shout'n'Shoot failed since its use of batteries and the fact you need to go screaming around just to shoot wasn't very good for the average soaker. The ShieldBlaster idea (rotary pumping) was potentially good, but that too failed since they didn't do a good job at making a blaster at least of similar water power compared to the other average stock water gun.

The term, Soakerdom, works since it's about soaking. Sure, it may have been labelled as Drencherdom if the Power Drencher name was adopted instead of Super Soaker, but that is not so much true as it is irrelevant. I don't feel any particular tunnel vision when it comes to scoping out the products on the market.

Moreover, I just don't share the same desire for realistic looking water guns. Hold on, that isn't the right way of phrasing. Super Soakers and Water Warriors, etc. aren't just realistic looking water guns, they ARE real water guns. What I don't really look for are water guns that are replicas or imitations of real guns. It's not that I have anything particularly against real guns (other than my desire to avoid being shot by one :goofy: ), but fact is, for a water gun to work well, it needs to accomodate various elements in order to allow it to function. The internals required to make a good water gun would push its form into something rather different than how ballistic weapons work. Reservoirs and pressure chambers need to occupy certain types of space. Spherical and rounded air-pressure chambers are not just ornamental, but also the more economical way of using space and having the strength of endure multiple pressurizations and de-pressurizations. Good water guns/blasters should take the form of devices meant for pushing water just as real guns have been moulded to best suit that type of projectile.

I know most of what I've said above won't change your stance on wanting real-gun-like-water-guns. However, IMO, the evolution in water blasters involves manufacturers spending a little more time thinking and making use of all the properties water has to push streams without needing to conform to any particular design, but being sturdy, potent, and ergonomical for user friendliness.

As for the target practice point, while more limited than things like Nerf, I still pull out a soaker from time to time to practice my aim. Granted, for indoor use, I'm stuck in a washroom doing short-range (~10' max) target practicing against a shower-wall. To make it more challenging, I opt to use small targets (less than 1' diameter) and only fire using short bursts to hit them. On warmer days, I head outside and do target practice in my backyard at varying distances on various objects. The limitation with water gun target practice is that targets and the areas must be able to get wet. Of course, it's not as fun as soaking someone else, but therein also lies the joy of soaking. It's not so much about hitting things as it is about getting another person wet.

:cool:

by **ANNIHILATOR 2** on Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:27 pm

I am fairly sure that your interestests go beyond "Soakers" when it comes to Recreational Water Guns, and you use Soakerdom as a more convinient term to describe it all. But I would think that for many if not even most, it will be only SS or WW and nothing more. Well, thats fine, but for some of us, its more than just that. And thats where my concept comes in.

As for soakers being the superior brand on the contemporary market, that is true. But that doesn't mean that one has to stick to those and not strive for something new. And it definatly doesn't mean that non-soakers should be ignored.

I have 3 favorite watergub review sites. The first 2 are aquanexus.net and isoaker.com, and the third one is this:
http://www.sinasnet.nl/Watergun.HTML
A non soaker dominated area. I am sure for most its a boring thing,(given that many kids and even adults in north america don't even know much about even basic world history), but the past has invented weels that I should not have to re-invent for a better future. The squirt pistol realm is just as important as the soakers in the bigger picture.

PCs can be shaped into many shapes. Not just that, but looking at the internals, there are relativly small, and most of the mass is basic frame. Granted you won't have a handgun like a desert eagle with my soaker concept, but you could have any fictional(gaus or energie rifle) or non fictional(M16,M60) frame with my 18+ RWG concept. Soakers don't look goofy(I mean that in a posetive way) because of the PC, but because of the frame.

by **ANNIHILATOR 2** on Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:38 pm

ANNIHILATOR 2 wrote:PCs can be shaped into many shapes. Not just that, but looking at the internals, there are relativly small, and most of the mass is basic frame. Granted you won't have a handgun like a desert eagle with my soaker concept, but you could have any fictional(gaus or energie rifle) or non fictional(M16,M60) frame with my 18+ RWG concept. Soakers don't look goofy(I mean that in a posetive way) because of the PC, but because of the frame.

Little topic update

Looks like I will have to forget about the realistic look concept. At least here in Canada, since Canadian firearm laws prohibit contemporary or realistic looking replicas now.
Well, there still is the high presure element in this 18+ concept.

Sure, in most other countries the realism element will still work, but I have no benefit from that.(Yeah I know, I sound like a jerk.)

Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1113450932

by **emperor_james** on Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:11 am

Hmmm, this is an interesting idea. Airsoft is actually one of my main hobbys now, though I have had soakers basically since they've been around (my great uncle got me a ton because his research team invented the plastic coke bottle design that they use.) However, I don't really think that having realistic looking soakers is the anwser, rather, extremely powerful soakers that are shaped to practically fit the internals and be comfortable to use.

by **ANNIHILATOR 2** on Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:33 am

emperor_james wrote:Hmmm, this is an interesting idea. Airsoft is actually one of my main hobbys now, though I have had soakers basically since they've been around (my great uncle got me a ton because his research team invented the plastic coke bottle design that they use.) However, I don't really think that having realistic looking soakers is the anwser, rather, extremely powerful soakers that are shaped to practically fit the internals and be comfortable to use.

The realism would serve a certain aestetics or collectors purpose. Sure this would be a very new and foreign element for contemporary water battles, since most have the "I don't care if my gun looks like shit aslong it performs" attitude. (Somewhat similar to paintball). Not that there is something wrong with that, but some people including me like to do their hobbies stylishly. Otherwise its just going to the motion. Well, at least to me. To be honest, would one still buy a super powered sports car with 1200 horse power, if it would look like a Ford Taurus or a basic Escalator?(don't know if I spelled it right).

Since for me the replica concept is no longer available, a very slick sci-fi look would be acceptable also. As mentioned before, PCs can have many shapes and sizes and still serve a practical yet aestetical posetiv purpose. i can do some 3D images as examples if people want.

Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1113460993

by **ZOCCOZ** on Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:57 am

My project seems unlikly now to complete. Anyways, here is to what could have been:

basic 10 litre PC homemade:

10 Litre PC homemade with cosmetics:

Concept:
-10 Litre PC
-no tank required(water gets pumped directly from bucket to PC via hose connector)
-up to 30-50X riot blast
-shoot up to 70-80 feet on the smaller nozzles
-very long shot time
-very long pumping
-hurts to get hit

Edited By ZOCCOZ on 1128945886

iSoaker.net :: Soaking the world!

Water Warfare - A Different Form? - ^ title changed from "The Sport?"

Who is online