iSoaker.net :: Soaking the world!

by **marauder_4** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:40 pm

I was looking around this forum and I noticed alot of posts concerning ideas about webrings, giant massive sites, and the need for more websites. First of all, let me say one thing before I get to the bulk of this topic.

On massive sites: They don't work. Period. At least not in Soakerdom. I've tried this before with Super Soaker Online and the "last" phase of Aquatica. While this is good in theory in the end it just supresses individuality and is alot less stable than many different sites.

Alright, I agree with Isoaker. We have a need for more websites. I don't think we've had this few websites in quite a while. However, I also agree with the people who say we need a webring. I personaly would not have found out about so many sites when I first joined the online community if it were not for the Super Soaker and Aquatica Webrings. In fact, just today I stumbled upon Blue Soak for the first time ever, even though the site has been dormant since 2004. If we had a webring I would have found that site way earlier. Also, go to google.com right now. Yes, right now. Type in Super Soaker, SuperSoakers, waterguns, and or waterwarfare. NO site besides Isoaker even shows up on the first page. Heck, even the old Aquatica Webring is on the first page when you search for Super Soakers. Tell me if that doesn't say something? Check out the Yahoo Directory for SuperSoakers. The only active watergun websites on the directory are Isoaker and SSCentral. Look at the Google SuperSoaker directory. Once again, the only current website on there is Isoaker. Heck, as I write this I just found another new website, except... it's not new. The site is Downpour in case you are wondering. There's not much there, but it looks like it would be have been a good site if it was updated. Granted, there is a good list of sites on Wikkipedia and on Google's Watergun directory. Now I'm on page 31 of my Google Search for Super Soakers and I have yet to find another current website besides Isoaker.com. What's wrong with this? There are about 10x more old sites listed than new sites. How will people ever find about other sites? They may go to the links section on Isoaker.com, but then again they might not.

Finally, a few thoughts:
Maybe the super sites are driving away opportunities for people to build their own sites. I still think we have way too many forums. People can dissagree with me, but I still think that it makes it harder to access the entirety of the online soaking community. Also, we need way more links. Here is a list of current sites and the amount of links to them that I can find from other soaking sites (including directories but not including dead sites).

Isoaker: 11
SS Central: 9
H2O Commandos: 6
Hydrotactics/Water Bridge:6
Soaker Media:6
ISS: 5
Aquazone: 3 (3 broken links)
Hydrowar: 1 (3 broken links)
WaterBattles: 1
Supersoakerit.com: 1

There you go... the online community is so disorganized. I only have 1 link to my site, yikes I didn't know that. Google's Page Ranking System considers your site more important by the amount of links you have to it, and the more links you have to it the more likely it will come up on top of a search.

And we have 6 forums
Aqua Warriors, Isoaker, SS Central, Waterbridge, and Soaker Media, CAM Forums

So we have over a 2 to 1 ratio of sites to forums. Maybe I'm the only one who sees no point in this. I'll be glad when Hunter and Wildboys get SSN up and online, but PLEAAASE guys NO FORUM!!!!! For the love of doughnuts.

We need to do something. I know SSC has a webring, but it's not very functional. Anyway...

Edited By marauder_4 on 1126306188

by **hunter** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:45 pm

I agree. We definately need a webring before next summer.

by **LIGHT ANNIHILATOR** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:01 pm

marauder_4 wrote:. I still think we have way too many forums. People can dissagree with me, but I still think that it makes it harder to access the entirety of the online soaking community. Also, we need way more links. Here is a list of current sites and the amount of links to them that I can find from other soaking sites (including directories but not including dead sites).

And we have 6 forums
Aqua Warriors, Isoaker, SS Central, Waterbridge, and Soaker Media, CAM Forums

So we have over a 2 to 1 ratio of sites to forums. Maybe I'm the only one who sees no point in this. I'll be glad when Hunter and Wildboys get SSN up and online, but PLEAAASE guys NO FORUM!!!!! For the love of doughnuts.

We need to do something. I know SSC has a webring, but it's not very functional. Anyway...

I have already mentioned my big three (isc ssc and sm) well maybe i should not say ssc because i a still having password trouble and Ben wont delete my profile so i can reregister. I won't join or post in any other forum exept for the big three and maybe ssn. And we won't need more sites if the old ones like blue soak and aqua-nexus would update.

:soakon2:

Edited By LIGHT ANNIHILATOR on 1126307270

by **marauder_4** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:25 pm

What are you talking about posting at SSN? There's no point in having so many forums. As far as I know I'm pretty sure Aqua Nexus is down for good.

by **Doom** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:15 pm

well maybe i should not say ssc because i a still having password trouble and Ben wont delete my profile so i can reregister

Maybe you should tell me about this problem? I've send you your password several times and merged your profiles (which means you only have one). I'm sending the password again - let me know if this doesn't work because I can only assume it does if you don't tell me. I can change your password to whatever you'd like to, and then you can change it as many times as you'd like (wetmonkey requested this). This is no reason not to use my site. I can't log-in for you!

I track backlinks a lot and positions on keywords. We're really doing fine on those (use the link:(url) parameter at Yahoo for a more complete list). Here's the real problem: the "sandbox" as SEO people call it prevent new sites from ranking well. Apparently this includes Super Soaker Central, which despite being on the first page for anchor text and page text, isn't in the top 1000 results because of this. This policy is only to reduce the amount of spam websites in there, and has nothing to do with relevence.

I disagree with this policy highly. Yahoo and MSN don't do this and see where SSC and iSoaker are in MSN (#3 and #5 respectively!). I find these results far more relevant than Google's.

I've recommended SEO (Search Engine Optimization) in the past, but it appears that the only people who have taken it to heart are iSoaker and I. I'm considering releasing my keywords list publicly simply because we're doing so poorly overall...

Marauder, I agree with you very much when you say we have too many forums. I somewhat started the "make a site, not a forum" thing at Super Soaker Central a while ago. It really hasn't done much good, but some people are working on sites. I used to think I was the only one who said this before.

If you'd like to help with a webring/link exchange M4, please visit Super Soaker Central's forums, log in and view the hidden "Newsletter development" forum.

Edited By Doom on 1126445261

by DX on Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:18 pm

The newsletter is a way to bring organization to the community, a chance to have a webring and a central links hub. Unlike the efforts of the past, this would have a much better chance of success. I think we have learned from history, if not then such efforts will fail again and again until we do.

Like the chats, history is being ignored. Every chat has failed miserably. They should be analyzed, what worked, what didn't, and that knowledge should be used if you do have a chatroom now. Otherwise, it WILL fail. The main reason that Soaker Media and its forums works is that we know what was good and what went wrong with past sites, we have learned from history, not ignored it. Armed with that crucial knowledge, you can build a site to stand the test of time.

Also, 10 sites and 6 forums is not very good. Some of those sites are pretty inactive, and some of the forums are too. The community is much smaller than most realize, considering that there aren't many active sites and forums left.

by **marauder_4** on Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:31 pm

Actually I disagree about chats. I've been in many Super Soaker chats in the past that were great. Also, Doom, I've had the same problem as Light Annihilator. Over the past month or so there's been times where I wanted to post on SSC but couldn't log in. The email password submission thing hasn't worked yet. Anyway, please send me my password. Thanks. Oh yeah, and SSC, the site, hasn't been updated in almost a year. Is there any particular reason for this?
The whole sandboxing thing is very interesting, but my site has been aroudn for five years, and I can remember a time when it was much higher up in the search results, on the first page even. I am pretty much shocked at how much of a better job yahoo and MSN do when searching for watergun sites than google.

by **isoaker** on Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:24 am

My current thoughts (take 'em for what they are):

We definitely could use more sites. More big sites would be fine IF and only IF they are built well. I don't like wannabe-big sites that either just repackage other people's info or have a huge listing of pages the 'intend' to have, but never set up. For those building sites, build within your capabilities and make every page count! Missing/broken pages just end up detracting from the feel of a site. I'd rather go to a site with just a few, but well-put-together pages than go to a supposedly larger site only to find half the links broken, missing, or 'under development'.

Webring(s) - 1 or 2 soaker webrings could help get visitors popping around the sites. My main beef with webrings is, well, I usually don't like having additional nav/images on the main page of iSoaker.com. I'm open to joining webrings so long as the ring master (and code) doesn't mind me providing the webring links from iSoaker.com's Link page as opposed to the main page. For me, iSoaker.com's main page is one of my main playgrounds when it comes to web design which is why I find foreign navs/images unappealing there. This is also one of the main reasons I've avoided webrings since, in the past, most have required links on the main page (heck, I know I've even asked that of others in the past when co-running the Aquatica Webring).

Chats - chats can be fun, but I find forums more useful. Some may enjoy real-time chatting and I know the limited ones I've been invovled with had been fun, but in the end, I still find posting in a forum more valuable than chats, even if the chat transcripts can be re-posted afterwards. Sure, some things are simpler to discuss in real-time, but I find it usually harder to get a good turn-out to chats due to schedule conflicts, etc.

Newsletter - for those working on the latest incarnation, good luck! We've had some success with running them in the past, but last of interest/time lead to their downfall. Newsletters can be a great source of info and also serve as a good way to have more find out about the various things going on the community. Just depends on those who manage it to keep the interest in its development going.

:cool:

by **marauder_4** on Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:22 pm

In the first few years of Hydrowar I changed the look so many times that I had tons of broken links. It's not worth it guys. Just a tip to all you webmasters and future webmasters out there, focus on content primarily, not design. And as far as webrings are concerned I can understand why you wouldn't want the image on your main page Isoaker. That's totally cool by me. Just pleaasee link to me!!!! Somebody. Everybody.

Anyway, I'm going to make a new topic about Webrings in general. It will be a vote.

Edited By marauder_4 on 1126369723

by **Doom** on Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:41 pm

Also, Doom, I've had the same problem as Light Annihilator. Over the past month or so there's been times where I wanted to post on SSC but couldn't log in. The email password submission thing hasn't worked yet. Anyway, please send me my password. Thanks. Oh yeah, and SSC, the site, hasn't been updated in almost a year. Is there any particular reason for this?

Here's the real problem: the email address you registered with isn't working any longer. I'll need to know your new email address and then I can reset your password. Alternatively, you can tell me what password to use and I can set it to that. I literally can't check what your password is because it's encoded.

We haven't been updated in a while for many reasons... but I plan on changing that eventually.

WebRings aren't the way to go as far as I am concerned. I didn't know the Super Soaker Central one wasn't functional, so I'll get on that. I think some sort of banner exchange as I described at Super Soaker Central a while ago would be best for everyone. WebRings don't make direct links to websites, which means that you'll get no benefit from the link in search engines (unless it's a 301 redirect).

As far as Hydrowar not ranking well, I can attribute many things to that. Here's my top 3:

1) Barely any sites link to it. You know this already. You're not only looking for links but targeted anchor text. Read some SEO sites for more information on that.

2) Hydrowar is hosted on a free host. Due to spam from free hosts, sites on known free hosts rank lower. I do not agree with this policy.

3) Your site uses frames. Google doesn't recommend that because it makes it hard for their spider to navigate.

Also, I've found a bunch of neat articles by you that you don't have on your site Marauder... let me know if you'd want these.

Edited By Doom on 1126445284

by **isoaker** on Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:51 pm

Just pleaasee link to me!!!!

I swore Hydrowar was linked! My bad (link there, but wrong/old URL)... will fix soon!

:cool:

by **marauder_4** on Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:42 pm

Doom wrote:WebRings aren't the way to go as far as I am concerned. I didn't know the Super Soaker Central one wasn't functional, so I'll get on that. I think some sort of banner exchange as I described at Super Soaker Central a while ago would be best for everyone. WebRings don't make direct links to websites, which means that you'll get no benefit from the link in search engines (unless it's a 301 redirect)

That's what I meant by a webring, I don't really care if it's that kind of thing or just a listing of sites. That works too.

by **Belisaurius** on Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:46 pm

I think we definately need something. Outside of SSC, ISC, and SM, soakerdom is decently scattered in all truth.

by **hunter** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:43 am

Yes, I agree. I have a link to hydrowar on the SSN chat, because no one else really has a link to it and it's a great site.

by **Doom** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:07 pm

Well, remember this: running your website and popularizing it is the webmaster's responsibility and only theirs's. I suggest to all webmasters to specifically ask several websites at least to link to them. I'll try to keep my links page current and put new sites in it, but it doesn't work all the time

by **NiborDude** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:32 pm

United we stand, devided we fall. If the soaker sites are united under one big name, I think activity might pick up, people will visit more sites, and more site's will develop. Begining SM was a scary for me. We are over shadowed by the larger sites in soakerdom so the likely hood we were going to survive was minimal. If larger sites, where most people will be visiting first, have a webring connecting them to other smaller sites, it will bring a lot of activity back.

by **isoaker** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:48 pm

If larger sites, where most people will be visiting first, have a webring connecting them to other smaller sites, it will bring a lot of activity back.

Activity, even on the larger sites, is definitely less these days. Webring or not, overall online Soakerdom interaction is down. A common ground may be nice in some sense, but won't necessarily bring about an increase in activity. The most active times in the communities were also the most active times in terms of soaker website developments. Webmasters from different sites would use the various forums to make note of their latest developments and get feedback on them. Many sites never got a huge number of hits, but then again, many webmasters were happily building their sites regardless of how many hits they got. They just built because they enjoyed it.

These days, I feel that many sites have died due to their webmaster feeling that their site lacked popularity. Those building sites should do so only because they want to share their thoughts/images/content on water warfare with others. Whether a site becmes a popular one depends on whether others like the content they see. Anyone building a site with the only real goal being making a 'popular' one shouldn't be building. The sites with highest traffic typically offer loads of content and/or other resources that have people wanting to return.

As our Soakerdom community is relatively small, I can only hope webmasters do their best to link to as many of the related-soaker-sites as they can. It can be hard to verify whether all the links work all the time and sometimes a site may be forgotten, but we can only do what we can to facilitate new members to navigate all that is Soakerdom. To this end, a webring or banner exchange may help, but those are definitely not the only means to improve cross-site traffic.

Me, I'm curious on the potential new 'Soakerdom Newsletter' that is under the planning stages at the moment. If it goes well, therein lies another good source of info and link exchange possibilities.

:cool:

by **marauder_4** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:13 pm

My site got alot more hits back in 2002, but I have way more content now. As of this week I'm working on 3 new reviews (since that section is lacking even though my friends and I have lots of soakers). I agree with Doom when he says that it's the webmaster's responsibility to get people to link to them, that's why I'm asking you guys to link to Hydrowar. I think I have every active site linked to as of now. As to Isoaker's comments on inactivity, I was browsing through the old Aquatica yahoo board and figured the amount of posts per year. I also did the same with these boards. Here's the results:

Super Soaker Central: 9,502 per year
Isoaker Forums: 9,198 per year
Soaker Media Forums: 4,841 per year
Aquatica Forums: 4,633 per year

Aquatica is on the bottom... so we do have some activity, and think if that was all on one board, that'd be so useful. I know, that sounds like alot, that's like 25 posts per day, and I don't seem to be seeing that, but that's what I calculated. You can check for yourself. It's kinda crazy that posting has gone up so much, but website numbers have gone down.

Edited By marauder_4 on 1126743282

by **isoaker** on Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:05 pm

I'm not sure how you generated those numbers, but I fear that you made some assumptions that perhaps shouldn't have been made when dividing posts by timespan. I also know the latter lost boards of Aquatica and WaterWar.net had definitely over 10000 posts/year (perhaps as high as 12000-15000 posts/year). I also believe SSCentral had at least 10000 posts in the course of the past year, but the number seems lower as it may have been generated by taking the current post count and dividing it by the entire lifetime of the site. Of course, the current forums aren't dead and if you add things up, there are now more posts across Soakerdom than there has been in the past.

Perhaps the lowered activity is partly due to the fact that activity is more split across different boards as opposed to being predominantly on a single board while Aquatica was at its peak.

It's interesting, though, your comment on posting going up while website numbers have gone down. There may be a good correlation in that, actually. People only have so much time in a day that if one posts a lot, chances are, one has less time available to devote to building. Me, I make time out of void to keep up with everything, but that's another story. :goofy: I know I'm not doing as much with iSoaker.com as I could/would like to, but I'm digressing...

In the end, we (as a group) can only encourage those who are willing to do what they can to build sites with good content. The rest is up to the individual regarding what can really be done.

:cool:

by **NiborDude** on Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:26 am

Soakerdom is very lonely this year. It is a deadly combination of lost veterans and no newb invasion. Yes, many of us hate newbs. But with out these people we are destined to die out. Also, I was very surprised to see how many people left over the summer. So many veterans and long time posters are gone. It's truly sad.

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